Much has been said about the catastrophic meeting at the White House last Friday between Ukrainian President Zelensky and the US President and Vice President.
I've been reading on another substack, the reactions of Americans to this debacle. A growing number of Americans are living in fear of their President and his unelected henchmen. So I would say that this gross display of bad manners by Trump and Vance was only appealing to those in MAGA who are not yet affected by the slash and burn policies of approaching dictatorship. Or the really dumb. Trump and Vance are past caring about keeping Americans on their side. Trump won't be standing again (although there are the mid-terms). What this ambush was set to achieve, was making Americans dislike a small man wearing simple black clothes who has had to learn English during the years of keeping a large country's sovereignty afloat while his people are being killed. (Killed by Russian airpower, a point Trump was trying to ram down his throat). If there was any point at all, humiliating Volodymyr Zelensky, it was to appeal to the Russian population who slavishly support their murderous leader. Quite what Trump and Vance have in mind by this, is unclear, but it certainly helped Putin. Perhaps underneath it all, is they actually do fear that the Atlantic Ocean cannot stop a nuclear attack. If Europe cannot step up, and USA capitulates to Putin, then Xi, New Zealand's distance from the theatre of wars, won't make any difference. Nor our ability to speak English pretty well.
Whenever Trump and Putin met face to face there wasn't any language impediment to get in the way. Trump wasn't merely chummy with Putin—he was always blatantly subservient.
I doubt very much that there problem was the language barrier. Zelensky did speak with an accent but his English was excellent. Everything blew up not fire the costume word, and by the way, his reply to the red faced right wing blogger who complained about his attire was very good. It blew up when Vance guy-liner man started shouting about him not thanking the US. I read many remarks later about how extraordinary that was and how out of line he was. From then on, Zelensky was never allowed to finish a phrase and they goaded him repeatedly and rudely until it was beyond repair. I do think the whole meeting was set up terribly and I hope they serve ginger then embassador who hide her face unprofessionally. Zelensky should never have been alone and he should have spoken in Ukrainian with an interpreter, to have the chance to stop, listen, think, count to ten. He knew these were enemies. They had just called him a dictator 3 days before. The only mistake was there.
I think one of the issues is that it wasn't clear what that meeting was. The actual news conference, with the signing of the minerals deal, was planned for later. So what we saw was meant to be a quick informal chat before the actual meeting but everything with Trump seems to become a live news event in front of cameras. Which isn't always a good thing (as I say this as someone who works in TV news....)
Zelenskyy to Vance: “I’ll wear a costume when the war ends, maybe something nicer than yours.” I’d be very interested to know if anyone in that room knew that in Russian and Ukrainian, ‘costume’ and ‘suit’ are the same word. I can imagine Trump and Vance will have taken ‘costume’ as an insult. Though if it hadn’t been that, they surely would have found something else to get upset about…
The question included the word "suit" and Zelenskyy understood it perfectly. Perhaps the Ukrainian word influenced his word choice, but I think his history as a comedian also played a role in his response. His comment about the cost of the asker's own suit makes me think it was a rebuke. It was very cutting and I believe entirely intentional.
They were already fully geared up before he used the word “costume” — they knew he wouldn't have worn a suit, he hasn't worn one when meeting with all other state leaders around the world since the war began, they deliberately invited him to the White Kremlin to bully him on live TV.
I agree with this meeting being a set up to humiliate Zelenskyy,, Ukraine and by extension Europe and to place Trump ever closer to Putin.
It was a masterclass in narcissistic bullying and domineering behaviour by Trump and Vance designed to humiliate and victim blame.
I do think Zelenskyy was hampered by not being a native English speaker. He was understandably angry about how he was being treated and what was being said. It is much harder to express oneself in a language that is not your mother tongue when emotions are running high.
As soon as I heard that, I immediately recognised Zelenskiy was struggling to find the right words. It reminded me of how a native Spanish speaker might make a similar slip, like meaning traje (suit) when they actually say traje de disfraz (costume).
More broadly, I think it was a mistake not to use a translator. It would have given him that extra moment to pause and avoid rushing into word choices that could be misinterpreted, as well as time to calm his response.
I also suspect President Trump might have some minor hearing difficulties. His reactions often remind me of my own father in similar situations. There is no such explanation for Vance though. I strongly suspect his reaction came from a more insidious type of assumption, the kind where someone’s intelligence, clarity and even authority are questioned simply because their English sounds slightly off. It is the kind of bias many of us who speak English as a second language know all too well.
On top of that, there is also the issue of cultural communication styles. Zelenskiy’s English, fast, blunt and stripped of softeners, probably landed as jarring or quite rude. It is a dynamic that will feel familiar to many Hispanics dealing with native [peninsular] Spaniards for the first time, or to anyone who has experienced culture shock working in places like Israel or the Netherlands, where hierarchical boundaries are minimal and you are expected to address your boss almost like a peer. In short, this is not just a language problem but a full clash of conversational cultures.
Omg, I thought the exact same thing. In my native language (Bulgarian) costume and suit are the same as well. When Zelenskyy said that, I gasped and waited to see what happens. But, thankfully, no one reacted on that.
Speaking of the global, dominant, privileged language... I believe there is some sort of paradox where the people speaking that language as their only language suffer from some kind of provincialism. Maybe it's a consequence of being the victim of their own success. Anyway, I'm an immigrant in the USA, and this thought occurred to me not long after I came to this country. There's a great deal of generalizing involved when I say this, but I feel that any exaggeration is justified in making this point. For anyone in the world who has to learn English as a second language, the very effort constitutes an attempt at being cosmopolitan, while most people who's mother's tongue is English are happy not to have to learn a foreign language. Of course, provincialism is ubiquitous, and unavoidable to a degree. One really has to uproot oneself and move to another country in order to gain sufficient perspective and step outside provincialism. Maybe extensive travel also helps, but I wouldn't know it. I guess a broader perspective is one of the luxuries of being an immigrant.
Exactly. As immigrants, we can't help but have a broader perspective, that's the whole point of trying to integrate into our adoptive cultures. It's not without challanges as we know, but it does have advantages too
I think one example that shows this better than most things is, oddly enough, the music charts! In non-English-speaking countries you’ll often see songs in multiple languages - not just English and the local language, but other languages too. Whereas in the Anglosphere, songs in other languages are very rarely played, let alone heard widely enough to chart.
On a side note, something that always makes me laugh is when the un-censored, x-rated versions of popular English language songs get played in totally inappropriate places, like a lift, or background music at a family restaurant....
All very true. Trump & Vance were not sensitive to these cultural differences not only because English may be the dominant language but because for whatever reason they lack empathy and the experience of having to fend for themselves in a foreign country, in another language. Another reason why Vance should take a propaganda tour to Ukraine. This phrase 'propaganda tour' was extremely insensitive, insulting and entirely lacking in empathy. He needs to get out more. Perhaps a spell out on the front line. Of course, Zelenskiy was at a linguistic disadvantage. He was also the victim of cultural differences. Inevitably. That is why his team should have foreseen such a situation and tried to forestall it. I think it would have been practically impossible to coach him adequately to deal with such a scenario. The situation was just too potentially too risky.
Yes, I think it was a mistake to come to Washington immediately after being called a dictator and all that awful stuff... On the other hand, his visit saved time (for Ukraine and for Europe) when it comes to clarifying the position of the USA; it is now abundantly clear what Trump's choice is.
I didn't mean they shouldn't have met. I think he grossly underestimated the situation and how evil these men are. Her was too easy. He should have prepared as if he were meeting Putin, in a third country, Istanbul, Rome, Geneva . With interpreters and his team. And also chosen the news outlets. Why would he think he was among friends?. The United States are nobody's friend today..
Precisely. I agree entirely. Anyway, to paraphrase FDR, February 28 is date that should live in infamy... And it should be the spark of a rallying cry in Europe. They cannot save us (here in the States) but they need to save Ukraine and save Europe by defeating Putin.
Oh I agree. I was hopeful to see today's European meeting, with heat of NATO, Canada and Turkey. I think it's a first for Turkey.. maybe there will be a new world prefer after all, a kinder one. I am hopeful. Naive?❤️
Oh totally (ambush and remarks about language: everything you said).
Just one point: Trump is clearly suffering from progressive age-related cognitive impairment. It's always worth bearing in mind that he really is very stupid, vain and cranky. Whenever one is tempted to imagine he's being "Machiavellian" or "calculating" or a "disruptor", it's probably always worth considering whether the simpler explanation is sufficient. To me this explains why he has been so clearly hoodwinked by the expertly crafted Russian propaganda over the past 25 years or so: it was always designed above all to target those in Western democracies who are particularly prone to conspiracy theories and hating the "MSM" because of their lack of general culture, education, historical context and intelligence.
Vance on the other hand is a more difficult case for analysis: Trump is already permanently annoyed with Zelenskyy, but might well have contained himself ... but it is Vance, ganging up in the knowledge that he is springing this trap with two native English-speakers against one who is not, who takes the chance to up the tension and spark Trump off. I haven't looked closely into who Vance is much. The world probably needs to do so. He's "a heartbeat away" from being President himself.
interestingly, I know a lot of commentators who are obsessed with the figure of Vance, who is in many ways much more ideological than Trump. I've got his book Hillbilly Elegy, it's next on my reading list.
Of course, there again, without currently having any facts which might contradict this hypothesis, the reality could be just the mundane one that he's immensely stoopid, but cast in a slightly different mould to that of Trump.
These are destined to be hugely powerful people for the next 4 years. It would be much more satisfying for them to be evil rather than dumb. Sometimes evil can be fought. "Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain." - Friedrich Schiller
Very glad to read this article. I had had similar thoughts after watching the awful spectacle, but haven’t seen any reference to the language-barrier issue in any coverage or analysis of it.
Until now. I hope your article gets a very wide audience.
Yalda has just explained on Sky News that during a meeting today with journalists (including Yalda) Zelenskyy spoke in Ukrainian.
Therefore, it's possible that he recognises that precision in language is critical and, by extension, it's possible he thinks language contributed to the problems with Trump and Vance.
However, most sensible onlookers would consider it appropriate (and decent) for Trump and Vance to make allowance for language issues, especially when discussing something as serious as war and international relations.
But they didn't.
To my mind, this exhibits their inadequacies, not Zelenskyy's.
I also noticed the body language between Trump and Zelensky. Trump used very aggressive body language, pointing his finger as if scolding someone inferior while occupying and invading Zelensky's personal space .
Meanwhile, Zelensky was trying to establish his own position. In many moments of this "theater of the absurd,"
Trump's hand positions were domineering, while Zelensky, as I also noticed, struggled to speak in English because it's not his language. It's often difficult to find the right words to express your position, especially in such an important discussion.
His English probably made him an easy target for what had been planned by the two not so open minded native Americans who did not even think for a second that maybe their guest was at a disadvantage linguistically.
It seems to me that the fact that English is not the Ukrainian President's first/dominant language was used as a convenient excuse NOT to listen to him. "Feel" is, in fact, commonly used to talk about "feeling the effects of" economic downturns and other catastrophes. Zelensky's use of the word was, in fact, appropriate, and would not have been highlighted, had he been a native speaker.
My first point is that we are quick to blame NNS for misuses of language (which this example was not even!) when natives make the same errors - languages are living and shaped by all those who use them.
Secondly, communication requires that both parties play their part, and although it is often the NNS's job to try and adapt, ALL parties must be fully invested for discussions to be successful. In this case, only one party was trying to engage in dialogue. And it wasn't a native speaker.
Last I checked, Zelensky is fluent in 3 languages. Trump can barely speak 1. Trump can’t even understand the difference between transgenic and transgender. The whole disgusting display by Trump and Vance was just a performance for Putin. There was never a peace deal on the table. Zelensky figured that out pretty quickly.
I've been reading on another substack, the reactions of Americans to this debacle. A growing number of Americans are living in fear of their President and his unelected henchmen. So I would say that this gross display of bad manners by Trump and Vance was only appealing to those in MAGA who are not yet affected by the slash and burn policies of approaching dictatorship. Or the really dumb. Trump and Vance are past caring about keeping Americans on their side. Trump won't be standing again (although there are the mid-terms). What this ambush was set to achieve, was making Americans dislike a small man wearing simple black clothes who has had to learn English during the years of keeping a large country's sovereignty afloat while his people are being killed. (Killed by Russian airpower, a point Trump was trying to ram down his throat). If there was any point at all, humiliating Volodymyr Zelensky, it was to appeal to the Russian population who slavishly support their murderous leader. Quite what Trump and Vance have in mind by this, is unclear, but it certainly helped Putin. Perhaps underneath it all, is they actually do fear that the Atlantic Ocean cannot stop a nuclear attack. If Europe cannot step up, and USA capitulates to Putin, then Xi, New Zealand's distance from the theatre of wars, won't make any difference. Nor our ability to speak English pretty well.
Whenever Trump and Putin met face to face there wasn't any language impediment to get in the way. Trump wasn't merely chummy with Putin—he was always blatantly subservient.
I doubt very much that there problem was the language barrier. Zelensky did speak with an accent but his English was excellent. Everything blew up not fire the costume word, and by the way, his reply to the red faced right wing blogger who complained about his attire was very good. It blew up when Vance guy-liner man started shouting about him not thanking the US. I read many remarks later about how extraordinary that was and how out of line he was. From then on, Zelensky was never allowed to finish a phrase and they goaded him repeatedly and rudely until it was beyond repair. I do think the whole meeting was set up terribly and I hope they serve ginger then embassador who hide her face unprofessionally. Zelensky should never have been alone and he should have spoken in Ukrainian with an interpreter, to have the chance to stop, listen, think, count to ten. He knew these were enemies. They had just called him a dictator 3 days before. The only mistake was there.
I think one of the issues is that it wasn't clear what that meeting was. The actual news conference, with the signing of the minerals deal, was planned for later. So what we saw was meant to be a quick informal chat before the actual meeting but everything with Trump seems to become a live news event in front of cameras. Which isn't always a good thing (as I say this as someone who works in TV news....)
Barbara, do you think this was impromptu? It looked staged, especially when the guy-liner guy stepped in..
Zelenskyy to Vance: “I’ll wear a costume when the war ends, maybe something nicer than yours.” I’d be very interested to know if anyone in that room knew that in Russian and Ukrainian, ‘costume’ and ‘suit’ are the same word. I can imagine Trump and Vance will have taken ‘costume’ as an insult. Though if it hadn’t been that, they surely would have found something else to get upset about…
That's such a good point Luke. I'd love to know. And you're right that 'costume' could be read as insulting in English....
The question included the word "suit" and Zelenskyy understood it perfectly. Perhaps the Ukrainian word influenced his word choice, but I think his history as a comedian also played a role in his response. His comment about the cost of the asker's own suit makes me think it was a rebuke. It was very cutting and I believe entirely intentional.
They were already fully geared up before he used the word “costume” — they knew he wouldn't have worn a suit, he hasn't worn one when meeting with all other state leaders around the world since the war began, they deliberately invited him to the White Kremlin to bully him on live TV.
I agree with this meeting being a set up to humiliate Zelenskyy,, Ukraine and by extension Europe and to place Trump ever closer to Putin.
It was a masterclass in narcissistic bullying and domineering behaviour by Trump and Vance designed to humiliate and victim blame.
I do think Zelenskyy was hampered by not being a native English speaker. He was understandably angry about how he was being treated and what was being said. It is much harder to express oneself in a language that is not your mother tongue when emotions are running high.
Talk about false friends... I believe that's what they're called.
As soon as I heard that, I immediately recognised Zelenskiy was struggling to find the right words. It reminded me of how a native Spanish speaker might make a similar slip, like meaning traje (suit) when they actually say traje de disfraz (costume).
More broadly, I think it was a mistake not to use a translator. It would have given him that extra moment to pause and avoid rushing into word choices that could be misinterpreted, as well as time to calm his response.
I also suspect President Trump might have some minor hearing difficulties. His reactions often remind me of my own father in similar situations. There is no such explanation for Vance though. I strongly suspect his reaction came from a more insidious type of assumption, the kind where someone’s intelligence, clarity and even authority are questioned simply because their English sounds slightly off. It is the kind of bias many of us who speak English as a second language know all too well.
On top of that, there is also the issue of cultural communication styles. Zelenskiy’s English, fast, blunt and stripped of softeners, probably landed as jarring or quite rude. It is a dynamic that will feel familiar to many Hispanics dealing with native [peninsular] Spaniards for the first time, or to anyone who has experienced culture shock working in places like Israel or the Netherlands, where hierarchical boundaries are minimal and you are expected to address your boss almost like a peer. In short, this is not just a language problem but a full clash of conversational cultures.
“ I also suspect President Trump might have some minor hearing difficulties.”
Don’t get confused. He has bigger problems than his hearing. That man has the mentality of a 9-year old.
Omg, I thought the exact same thing. In my native language (Bulgarian) costume and suit are the same as well. When Zelenskyy said that, I gasped and waited to see what happens. But, thankfully, no one reacted on that.
'Costume' is also the word for a suit in French.
Speaking of the global, dominant, privileged language... I believe there is some sort of paradox where the people speaking that language as their only language suffer from some kind of provincialism. Maybe it's a consequence of being the victim of their own success. Anyway, I'm an immigrant in the USA, and this thought occurred to me not long after I came to this country. There's a great deal of generalizing involved when I say this, but I feel that any exaggeration is justified in making this point. For anyone in the world who has to learn English as a second language, the very effort constitutes an attempt at being cosmopolitan, while most people who's mother's tongue is English are happy not to have to learn a foreign language. Of course, provincialism is ubiquitous, and unavoidable to a degree. One really has to uproot oneself and move to another country in order to gain sufficient perspective and step outside provincialism. Maybe extensive travel also helps, but I wouldn't know it. I guess a broader perspective is one of the luxuries of being an immigrant.
Exactly. As immigrants, we can't help but have a broader perspective, that's the whole point of trying to integrate into our adoptive cultures. It's not without challanges as we know, but it does have advantages too
I think one example that shows this better than most things is, oddly enough, the music charts! In non-English-speaking countries you’ll often see songs in multiple languages - not just English and the local language, but other languages too. Whereas in the Anglosphere, songs in other languages are very rarely played, let alone heard widely enough to chart.
On a side note, something that always makes me laugh is when the un-censored, x-rated versions of popular English language songs get played in totally inappropriate places, like a lift, or background music at a family restaurant....
Also books and films
All very true. Trump & Vance were not sensitive to these cultural differences not only because English may be the dominant language but because for whatever reason they lack empathy and the experience of having to fend for themselves in a foreign country, in another language. Another reason why Vance should take a propaganda tour to Ukraine. This phrase 'propaganda tour' was extremely insensitive, insulting and entirely lacking in empathy. He needs to get out more. Perhaps a spell out on the front line. Of course, Zelenskiy was at a linguistic disadvantage. He was also the victim of cultural differences. Inevitably. That is why his team should have foreseen such a situation and tried to forestall it. I think it would have been practically impossible to coach him adequately to deal with such a scenario. The situation was just too potentially too risky.
Exactly. Ultimately that meeting was not under their control. The image of the Ukrainian ambassador with her head in her hands spoke volumes....
I think he should never have gone to Washington
Yes, I think it was a mistake to come to Washington immediately after being called a dictator and all that awful stuff... On the other hand, his visit saved time (for Ukraine and for Europe) when it comes to clarifying the position of the USA; it is now abundantly clear what Trump's choice is.
I didn't mean they shouldn't have met. I think he grossly underestimated the situation and how evil these men are. Her was too easy. He should have prepared as if he were meeting Putin, in a third country, Istanbul, Rome, Geneva . With interpreters and his team. And also chosen the news outlets. Why would he think he was among friends?. The United States are nobody's friend today..
Precisely. I agree entirely. Anyway, to paraphrase FDR, February 28 is date that should live in infamy... And it should be the spark of a rallying cry in Europe. They cannot save us (here in the States) but they need to save Ukraine and save Europe by defeating Putin.
Oh I agree. I was hopeful to see today's European meeting, with heat of NATO, Canada and Turkey. I think it's a first for Turkey.. maybe there will be a new world prefer after all, a kinder one. I am hopeful. Naive?❤️
Let's go with hopeful
Oh totally (ambush and remarks about language: everything you said).
Just one point: Trump is clearly suffering from progressive age-related cognitive impairment. It's always worth bearing in mind that he really is very stupid, vain and cranky. Whenever one is tempted to imagine he's being "Machiavellian" or "calculating" or a "disruptor", it's probably always worth considering whether the simpler explanation is sufficient. To me this explains why he has been so clearly hoodwinked by the expertly crafted Russian propaganda over the past 25 years or so: it was always designed above all to target those in Western democracies who are particularly prone to conspiracy theories and hating the "MSM" because of their lack of general culture, education, historical context and intelligence.
Vance on the other hand is a more difficult case for analysis: Trump is already permanently annoyed with Zelenskyy, but might well have contained himself ... but it is Vance, ganging up in the knowledge that he is springing this trap with two native English-speakers against one who is not, who takes the chance to up the tension and spark Trump off. I haven't looked closely into who Vance is much. The world probably needs to do so. He's "a heartbeat away" from being President himself.
interestingly, I know a lot of commentators who are obsessed with the figure of Vance, who is in many ways much more ideological than Trump. I've got his book Hillbilly Elegy, it's next on my reading list.
I must seek it out.
Of course, there again, without currently having any facts which might contradict this hypothesis, the reality could be just the mundane one that he's immensely stoopid, but cast in a slightly different mould to that of Trump.
These are destined to be hugely powerful people for the next 4 years. It would be much more satisfying for them to be evil rather than dumb. Sometimes evil can be fought. "Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain." - Friedrich Schiller
Very glad to read this article. I had had similar thoughts after watching the awful spectacle, but haven’t seen any reference to the language-barrier issue in any coverage or analysis of it.
Until now. I hope your article gets a very wide audience.
Thank you Peter x
*** please forgive my many typos.. I was at the theater but this discussion reality really empassioned me.
Thanks for making this point. It came to my mind too.
An excellent article, Barbara. Many thanks.
Yalda has just explained on Sky News that during a meeting today with journalists (including Yalda) Zelenskyy spoke in Ukrainian.
Therefore, it's possible that he recognises that precision in language is critical and, by extension, it's possible he thinks language contributed to the problems with Trump and Vance.
However, most sensible onlookers would consider it appropriate (and decent) for Trump and Vance to make allowance for language issues, especially when discussing something as serious as war and international relations.
But they didn't.
To my mind, this exhibits their inadequacies, not Zelenskyy's.
I also noticed the body language between Trump and Zelensky. Trump used very aggressive body language, pointing his finger as if scolding someone inferior while occupying and invading Zelensky's personal space .
Meanwhile, Zelensky was trying to establish his own position. In many moments of this "theater of the absurd,"
Trump's hand positions were domineering, while Zelensky, as I also noticed, struggled to speak in English because it's not his language. It's often difficult to find the right words to express your position, especially in such an important discussion.
Trump's dominance was evident.
Vance also piled on, making it two against one
His English probably made him an easy target for what had been planned by the two not so open minded native Americans who did not even think for a second that maybe their guest was at a disadvantage linguistically.
It seems to me that the fact that English is not the Ukrainian President's first/dominant language was used as a convenient excuse NOT to listen to him. "Feel" is, in fact, commonly used to talk about "feeling the effects of" economic downturns and other catastrophes. Zelensky's use of the word was, in fact, appropriate, and would not have been highlighted, had he been a native speaker.
My first point is that we are quick to blame NNS for misuses of language (which this example was not even!) when natives make the same errors - languages are living and shaped by all those who use them.
Secondly, communication requires that both parties play their part, and although it is often the NNS's job to try and adapt, ALL parties must be fully invested for discussions to be successful. In this case, only one party was trying to engage in dialogue. And it wasn't a native speaker.
Last I checked, Zelensky is fluent in 3 languages. Trump can barely speak 1. Trump can’t even understand the difference between transgenic and transgender. The whole disgusting display by Trump and Vance was just a performance for Putin. There was never a peace deal on the table. Zelensky figured that out pretty quickly.
He speaks English a helluva lot better than King Donnie.