As an African I’m quite conflicted about Georgia Meloni for a couple of reasons. After Nigeria’s recent elections the first foreign visit by the Nigerian vice president was Italy. I saw pictures which his aides posted on facebook of him meeting with Meloni and she appeared, at least in the photo, to be quite animated by their discussion. She really warmed up to her guest. More recently, I’ve heard her promise to make support for Africa at the heart of the G7 Summit. For a right wing politician that is totally unexpected
Hello Edwyn. In a way, it's not surprising at all. Her number 1 priority is to stop immigration, and many migrants making their way to Italy are economic migrants from Africa. She's always said that 'helping them at home' is the solution. Now, the tone in which that is said and whether she actually means it is another matter. But in light of that it's not surprising that she would engage with and try to build a good relationship with Nigeria, Africa's biggest economy, and remind her G7 colleagues that it's her priority. But remember....the TONE with which these things are said to various audiences matters a great deal..... Thank you for your comment
Interesting message Barbara, but there's another difference for Anglo-Saxons: whereas "fascist" means something quite specific for Italians, and has done since the 1920s, as far back as 1944 George Orwell suggested that "fascist" had been rendered almost meaningless as a word in English, or that if it meant anything it was just a synonym for "bully". This is one reason why I think a more specific word is needed for what's happening in right-wing parties in the UK, USA, France, and various other places.
Much of this in all 3 countries (and in Italy) is fuelled by "immigration" numbers, and the nature of those "immigrants". I put the word in inverted commas because what we get from ONS (in the UK) includes people like Chinese and South Asian students at UK universities (most of which have degenerated into scam businesses these days, delivering nothing like value for money), and also nurses and care workers (e.g. from the Philippines), all of whom have come to the UK on FIXED-TERM visas!
"Immigrants" is in fact a strangely political, and inflammatory, term for the ONS to be using. These numbers (net immigration) have risen over recent years to an alarming figure (> 700k net "entrants" PER YEAR! in the UK). But that rise cannot continue: as these university courses and care contracts come to an end, this "net entrants" figure must start to decline.
As ever, this rhetoric is all about a handful of very rich newspaper owners (Harmsworth in particular), working hand-in-hand with the Tory strategists to inflame the specific passions of quite a small number of very uneducated older people in a handful of marginal constituencies ... where their votes actually matter in 2024.
Hi Mike, I couldn't agree with you more about the use of the actual word 'fascism' in English. It covers everything from bullies, to nazis to people who may simply hold a different viewpoint. I also agree that it would be more useful to use another word, but I can't see that happening....we'll have to make sense of the one we have! I'll also share a detail that's made me quite proud (please forgive the slight hubris). Fareed Zakaria of CNN shared my New Lines article on his Global Briefing newsletter, which was about the different viewpoints on whether Meloni is a 'fascist'. It makes me happy that people are starting the notice what are ultimately the main themes of this newsletter. Link below if you're interested and, as always, thank you for your interaction :)
I read this a while ago: "Rather than distancing herself from her neofascist past, as some people might have expected, she’s trying to distance her neofascist past from fascism itself."
Which is a good, if complicated, point. Actual fascism was a long time ago, but neo fascism has held on since after WW2. No one remembers the actual dictatorship, but they do remember the clashes of the 1970s and they won't betray their neo-fascist identity. In the video i linked to in the post the hundreds of black shirts are commemorating a killing of three young neo-fascists in the 70s...
It is a complicated point. But it is starting to make sense.
Yes, I saw the video!
Classic fascism was a long time ago.
But today’s (neo)fascists are equally not embarrassed and they apologise for nothing. They just don't like the label “fascist". They prefer to be "right-wing populists" and as long as they don't openly endorse violence (it deters potential supporters), they can call themselves that. Instead they boast of their patriotism, fuel people's discontent, and claim to represent the “true” nation.
We only seem to recognise a fascist revival when it turns violent (e.g. the attck on the Capitol), and afterwards it's all back to "normal". A sense of relief, followed by complacency. In the process, fascism gets more and more normalised, bit by bit.
Meloni and all others (definitely not just Italy specific!) are, in my view , deliberately giving mixed messages. Cleverly misleading. On/off fascism.
And that's the scary part. We now seem to talk about real and other (moderate) fascists, as if we should feel lucky they are not "as bad as they could be".
They all need to own the label - fascists. The definition of fascism is clear.
Sunak, Trump, the lot...
I feel so demoralised that these days politics is all about who is less bad and about vengance. No creative solutions to problems, no vision for all.
These guys need to brush up on their Cicero (non nobis solum).
I know what you mean Cinzia, and I know how closely you follow political events in Italy. But often for a non-italian audience that literally means that she is about to dismantle democracy and stage a coup d'etat. That's where i think some confusion stems from. But my longer article on New Lines magazine highlights what I think are the real dangers of a Meloni government.
As an African I’m quite conflicted about Georgia Meloni for a couple of reasons. After Nigeria’s recent elections the first foreign visit by the Nigerian vice president was Italy. I saw pictures which his aides posted on facebook of him meeting with Meloni and she appeared, at least in the photo, to be quite animated by their discussion. She really warmed up to her guest. More recently, I’ve heard her promise to make support for Africa at the heart of the G7 Summit. For a right wing politician that is totally unexpected
Hello Edwyn. In a way, it's not surprising at all. Her number 1 priority is to stop immigration, and many migrants making their way to Italy are economic migrants from Africa. She's always said that 'helping them at home' is the solution. Now, the tone in which that is said and whether she actually means it is another matter. But in light of that it's not surprising that she would engage with and try to build a good relationship with Nigeria, Africa's biggest economy, and remind her G7 colleagues that it's her priority. But remember....the TONE with which these things are said to various audiences matters a great deal..... Thank you for your comment
Interesting message Barbara, but there's another difference for Anglo-Saxons: whereas "fascist" means something quite specific for Italians, and has done since the 1920s, as far back as 1944 George Orwell suggested that "fascist" had been rendered almost meaningless as a word in English, or that if it meant anything it was just a synonym for "bully". This is one reason why I think a more specific word is needed for what's happening in right-wing parties in the UK, USA, France, and various other places.
Much of this in all 3 countries (and in Italy) is fuelled by "immigration" numbers, and the nature of those "immigrants". I put the word in inverted commas because what we get from ONS (in the UK) includes people like Chinese and South Asian students at UK universities (most of which have degenerated into scam businesses these days, delivering nothing like value for money), and also nurses and care workers (e.g. from the Philippines), all of whom have come to the UK on FIXED-TERM visas!
"Immigrants" is in fact a strangely political, and inflammatory, term for the ONS to be using. These numbers (net immigration) have risen over recent years to an alarming figure (> 700k net "entrants" PER YEAR! in the UK). But that rise cannot continue: as these university courses and care contracts come to an end, this "net entrants" figure must start to decline.
As ever, this rhetoric is all about a handful of very rich newspaper owners (Harmsworth in particular), working hand-in-hand with the Tory strategists to inflame the specific passions of quite a small number of very uneducated older people in a handful of marginal constituencies ... where their votes actually matter in 2024.
Hi Mike, I couldn't agree with you more about the use of the actual word 'fascism' in English. It covers everything from bullies, to nazis to people who may simply hold a different viewpoint. I also agree that it would be more useful to use another word, but I can't see that happening....we'll have to make sense of the one we have! I'll also share a detail that's made me quite proud (please forgive the slight hubris). Fareed Zakaria of CNN shared my New Lines article on his Global Briefing newsletter, which was about the different viewpoints on whether Meloni is a 'fascist'. It makes me happy that people are starting the notice what are ultimately the main themes of this newsletter. Link below if you're interested and, as always, thank you for your interaction :)
https://view.newsletters.cnn.com/messages/17063090576071c47b3304f07/raw?utm_term=17063090576071c47b3304f07&utm_source=cnn_Fareed%27s+Global+Briefing%2C+Jan.+26%2C+2024&utm_medium=email&bt_ee=0z10US5sPuzxN%2BKlUcTS0Ehiwa8olmv7YdTWmhBVFVaEgcxlQ8rR1f4vBg8Mgxsm&bt_ts=1706309057610
I read this a while ago: "Rather than distancing herself from her neofascist past, as some people might have expected, she’s trying to distance her neofascist past from fascism itself."
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/02/06/why-giorgia-meloni-wont-distance-herself-from-italys-fascist-past/
Which is a good, if complicated, point. Actual fascism was a long time ago, but neo fascism has held on since after WW2. No one remembers the actual dictatorship, but they do remember the clashes of the 1970s and they won't betray their neo-fascist identity. In the video i linked to in the post the hundreds of black shirts are commemorating a killing of three young neo-fascists in the 70s...
It is a complicated point. But it is starting to make sense.
Yes, I saw the video!
Classic fascism was a long time ago.
But today’s (neo)fascists are equally not embarrassed and they apologise for nothing. They just don't like the label “fascist". They prefer to be "right-wing populists" and as long as they don't openly endorse violence (it deters potential supporters), they can call themselves that. Instead they boast of their patriotism, fuel people's discontent, and claim to represent the “true” nation.
We only seem to recognise a fascist revival when it turns violent (e.g. the attck on the Capitol), and afterwards it's all back to "normal". A sense of relief, followed by complacency. In the process, fascism gets more and more normalised, bit by bit.
Meloni and all others (definitely not just Italy specific!) are, in my view , deliberately giving mixed messages. Cleverly misleading. On/off fascism.
And that's the scary part. We now seem to talk about real and other (moderate) fascists, as if we should feel lucky they are not "as bad as they could be".
They all need to own the label - fascists. The definition of fascism is clear.
Sunak, Trump, the lot...
I feel so demoralised that these days politics is all about who is less bad and about vengance. No creative solutions to problems, no vision for all.
These guys need to brush up on their Cicero (non nobis solum).
😔
Some very good points about what we can learn from history. That video of the facist salutes is a bit scary!
And you know what the scariest thing about that video is? That seasoned observers reacted with "oh yeah, it happens every year.". Because it does.
No doubt about this. She is. Unfortunatelly italian people don't understand it.
I know what you mean Cinzia, and I know how closely you follow political events in Italy. But often for a non-italian audience that literally means that she is about to dismantle democracy and stage a coup d'etat. That's where i think some confusion stems from. But my longer article on New Lines magazine highlights what I think are the real dangers of a Meloni government.