The first time i walked into Aljazeera's newroom, my editor took me around to meet the rest of the team. She introduced me by name and then went on to say: "isn't she great, an Italian speaking with a cockney accent?" I guess that came as a bit of a shock to me. I had never felt nervous about how I might sound to an english speaker... but suddenly that remark made me feel extremely self-sound- conscious! Forget the Italian, it was the COCKNEY word that got me. Ever since, I make sure I pronunce T for T and F for F ...and most of all ...that, if anything, i sound more Italian than Cockney :)
Oh, I'm curious now as to who that editor was! Joking aside, that's why it's such a minefield as to WHICH native-English accent to learn. Rightly or wrongly, 'mid-posh' British is perceived as neutral. I think I'd use that as a base.
Thanks, Barbara, for writing this article! It's a great read, and I've enjoyed reading it. You raised very pertinent issues. When I worked for AlJazeera (was web editor), I was approached by African journalists who had worked in Africa as TV presenters, and they wanted to know if they could work as presenters for AJE English. I would help them send their resumes to newsroom managers, but I was only trying to be polite because I knew perfectly well that the English they spoke, though very good by the standards of their countries, was never going to be accepted by hiring managers. I was the only web editor from Africa, and in my time at Al Jazeera, I saw only one woman from my country hired as a producer. She grew up in the UK and studied there―and speaks English with a British accent.
Hi Musaazi, great to find you here. Your anecdote about the African journalists makes me quite sad - such a waste of talent, and AJE is meant to be all about reflecting the global south. Aje is probably better than most channels but still, it's such a shame. I think international networks should offer specific voice training. Not to try to make people sound like something they're not (uk or US accents) but to help them improve their language skills and make their own accents clear to understand (ironically even more important for an international channel, where many viewers are themselves second language English). But I think things are slowly changing. Any talk of global diversity in news is hollow until this issue is at least addressed. Thank you for your comment
Yes, Barbara, things are beginning to change, as you noted. Twenty-five years ago, the BBC didn't have a single African-born/African-educated news presenter anchoring international news. Today I see faces from South Africa, Uganda (my country), etc. But some flagship news and current affairs programmes, such as NewsHour on the World Service, have stuck with native speakers. I raised this issue many years ago, as you can see here: https://bbc.in/41kHLcH
Barbara, thank you for making me think, once again, as you so often do.
I think you distinguished two separate questions here, about what it is to be a native speaker of English, then deliberately conflated them again. And you yourself are the best example I can think of, of why this question means less than it seems to mean.
Your proficiency in English exceeds that of 99% of people who call themselves native speakers, but as you've admitted in this article, you can't pass for someone who grew up in the British Isles, in North America, in Australasia, or in the Anglophone parts of Africa. Or to put it another way, you are obviously not from a place of native English speakers.
And yet, if I didn't recognise the distinctive Italian undertones that contribute to making your voice so beautiful - the handful of letters that betray your heritage - I would absolutely believe that you are a native speaker, just one with a different accent from other native speakers. It's not that you're fooling the non-native speakers who think you are native. It's simply that there isn't such a thing as "correct English speech". Your English is just as valid as mine, just as valid as that of King Charles himself, and just as valid as that of the finest Hollywood actor. You're simply versatile enough to be just as convincing in a slew of other languages.
And that leads me to disagree with your conclusion. I don't think trust needs to be tribal. You are not of my tribe, but I always trusted you and believed you when I heard you on Al Jazeera. Just as I trust and believe other news presenters on that channel, who are also not of my tribe. I would like to think we live in a world where people will focus on the message, on the content of a news article; more than on the speech patterns of the person delivering it. Perhaps I'm being naïve or idealistic. There's certainly a level at which a foreigner becomes difficult to understand; but frankly, there are people who grew up in England, Ireland and South Africa whom I find difficult to understand. Likewise, I'm sure there are people in North America who would struggle to understand my accent. Give me an articulate, intelligent second-language English speaker over an inarticulate mumbler, any day of the week.
David, thank you for your insightful comment. I would also like to agree with you that trust doesn't have to be tribal. But I think what people are looking for when they tune into to a channel like Al Jazeera is different to what they would expect from their local news. And I would guess that maybe Al Jazeera had to win your trust at the beginning. Also, maybe the kind of people who specifically look for a news channel that speaks about other parts of the world and challenges the mainstream narrative could be seen as a 'tribe' of sorts. I don't know, but I'm happy that we're talking about it. My issue was that language/accents never gets mentioned while it has a huge impact.
Your name tag says NZ, which I'm assuming means you're in New Zealand (and I'm going to go further and assume you're from there too?). if I'm mistaken, please forgive me.
I wonder if your comment identifies something else important. There's a difference between the UK and other English-as-first-language nations? I recognise that trust being tribal comment in British society for sure. It's an ugly truth that few own up to, but it is there. And it's not just about language, but class too. The UK is still riven with class division. The unvoiced question, "does she talk like us", is about more than nation, it's about class too.
I wonder if NZ has a different experience of class division?
Hi Jonathan. Yes, I have lived my entire life in New Zealand. I'm not sure whether you're making a statement that there's a difference between UK and other English speaking nations, or asking me whether it's something I believe myself. I think my comment to Barbara says no. I mentioned the way Barbara speaks, the way I speak, the way His Majesty speaks, and the way a Hollywood actor speaks; and claimed that they're all equally valid. My point is that there is no single "best" English.
I understand that the British class system leaves people with the notion that it's important to adopt a particular speech pattern. That if you study at Oxford or Cambridge, you're going to end up speaking "Received Pronunciation", whether you intend to or not. I think a similar thing happens in the United States, but kind of inverted; that is, there are "less desirable" modes of speech, but not a "most desirable" one. For example, you can have a particular slow drawl if you're from the deep South, or you a distinctive nasal twang if you're from the wrong part of New York; but there's no particular "high quality" version of a United States accent.
In both Australia and New Zealand, I don't think this happens at all. The variation in our accents is much smaller. I struggle to distinguish a North Island New Zealand accent from a South Island one, although an accent from the very far south of New Zealand is a bit more distinctive. So if there's a class system here, accent doesn't play into it.
Of course, like in any country, not everybody in New Zealand is born with the same opportunities and advantages. Social background, money, race, educational opportunity and so on are all factors that affect what kind of future someone is likely to have. So that's a class system of sorts, although we don't tend to admit it quite as freely as someone from the UK might. What doesn't play into it, as far as I can tell, is a person's accent. We don't judge people as soon as they open their mouths; and the concept of a "best" variety of New Zealand English simply doesn't exist.
Thanks so much Barbara for writing this - every foreign journo in the UK realises where their main challenge lies from day one, though it remains completely unacknowledged by colleagues, fellow students and potential employers. I lost years trying to catch up with the language having received zero support - imagine the difference a targeted training scheme would have made to me and so many others. Even more sinister is the hidden 'accent' discrimination. In my first year in the UK I made a point of trying to copy the local accent at least as much as of learning the language itself, and it paid off because I ended up sounding 'less different' compared to my peers. People complimented me for my English - which wasn't good, just sounded a little more British. I was able to find a job, others from my same cohort never did, and there's no doubt whatsoever that their accent massively penalised them.
Hi Lou. I remembered your comment about a targeted training scheme, so I made one! If you check out www.barbaraserra.info/voices you can see what i offer. Enrolment open until Monday evening U.K. time. 10% off today for all substack subscribers , add TENOFF at checkout. Hope you might find it interesting! All the best, B
Thanks for your insight and reflection on this topic, Barbara - which may obviously translate to any country in the world. From my experience, a fellow Italian who has worked as a medical consultant in the NHS for over 10 years, this does not just apply to journalism though.
Well,I haven't actually thought of this,I never thought of you as a foreigner, could joke about it but not really, that's because we are on the same Planet Earth.But can see how it affects journalism and other difficulties in the world,namely prejudice of different appearances and beliefs.I don't speak fluent Moari,but not a handicap.Can explain why but not now,later.Thanksfor the post.Enjoyed it as always.💋🌹🌹🌹
I recall reading years ago that if you don't learn a second language before the age of 6, you will always have an accent. My spouse, who has spoken English as a second language since a child and tells me she "mostly thinks in English", would seem to validate that rule. So I was astonished the other day when chatting with our 30'ish Fedex driver I've talked to for years and I had always assumed he was born in Canada. He mentioned, that like my spouse, he grew up in SE Asia and moved to Canada in his late teens. I then related what I said in the first sentence to him. He just smiled at me and said, "see what working in a call center can do for you"! This individual seems to have invalidated a belief I previously held to be axiomatic.
I think that the fact that, as reported by The Guardian of all papers, a few years' back, AJ's owners were partners with Hamas in a Doha-based Real Estate company that washed Hamas' tax revenues, might be more of a factor, along with its historic support for the Muslim Brotherhood.
I would also blame Wadah Khanfar, obviously, as do many of AJ's journalists, who resigned because of him.
Funny how nobody at AJ ever blames Iran for owning Hamas: must be because of the gas pipeline it owns jointly with Qatar!
Israel captured all of Palestine - but from Egypt and Jordan - in 1967 - and retains just 10%. It voted in the current hoodlum government, purely because of the massive increase in Arab terrorism, so that backfired for the Palestinians.
Funny how nobody at AJ ever says, well that was a big mistake by Palestinians to reject the UN Partition plan, as that would have given them more land than any deal since or in the future, and Palestine would now be celebrating 75 years of prosperity, with a decent government and no corrupt Hamas or PLO terrorists running the show!
Actions have consequences, and the losers of the wars they started don't get to decide the terms of any peace deal.
I'm really really disappointed that you didn't sing, Barbara! You might think I'm joking. But I bet you sing beautifully.
I don't think it takes that much to be a TV presenter. You talked about the skill of writing about images, but that conceivably could easily done by someone else.
For me this is the main reason why I find it difficult to care that much whether foreign accent diversity is respected or not in this field: to become an "instant celeb" by being a presenter of any kind on UK TV, with a commensurate pay package, should be regarded as an unexpected privilege, like winning the lottery. This is a branch of showbiz. And yet, dare I say it, with the hypocrisy of claiming to be more serious than showbiz! In all other areas of journalism having a slight foreign accent would hardly matter.
Can you accept that your beauty will have been a factor in the decisions of others? Other presenters get chosen for various other reasons, which we all ponder as we watch them. I.e. why did the managers choose that particular person? Often diversity does clearly seem to come into it. But it's never terribly serious. To have an ambition at any age to be "a TV presenter" is a rather sad ambition: it means you are seeking to become, and then trade off being, a "familiar face" beloved of the non-binary-person-in-the-street up and down the land. But such love is always unearned and therefore unmerited.
But this article also makes me wonder, again, something I've often wondered as I've watched you presenting on Al-Jazeera: are we permitted to ask/know *why* precisely you chose to study journalism and make a journalistic career in the UK? What made you leave Italy?
I have some familiarity with Italy. It seems that meritocratic advancement is generally held to be a biggish issue there, favouritism, nepotism, cronyism, « figli e figliastri » ... Or more of an issue than in the UK, although many "native" English like myself would reject completely the notion that the UK has anything to be particularly proud of in this regard. Maybe it was nothing to do with this...
She did one presenting shift on Sky News back in the 1990s, and that was the end of it.
On a side issue, why is Al Jazeera completely anti-Israeli? Is it because its owners want to access the natural gas offshore of Israel, or are they just totally antisemitic? Or both!
Ah, I guess maybe in the 90s accents from the different nations might have been an issue. I don't think it would be now. Certainly a soft Scottish accent is usually very popular (I think it sounds beautiful). The AJ question isn't for me to answer but I'd say that Al Jazeera wants to shine a light on the continued occupation of Palestinian lands by Israel.
The first time i walked into Aljazeera's newroom, my editor took me around to meet the rest of the team. She introduced me by name and then went on to say: "isn't she great, an Italian speaking with a cockney accent?" I guess that came as a bit of a shock to me. I had never felt nervous about how I might sound to an english speaker... but suddenly that remark made me feel extremely self-sound- conscious! Forget the Italian, it was the COCKNEY word that got me. Ever since, I make sure I pronunce T for T and F for F ...and most of all ...that, if anything, i sound more Italian than Cockney :)
Oh, I'm curious now as to who that editor was! Joking aside, that's why it's such a minefield as to WHICH native-English accent to learn. Rightly or wrongly, 'mid-posh' British is perceived as neutral. I think I'd use that as a base.
Thanks, Barbara, for writing this article! It's a great read, and I've enjoyed reading it. You raised very pertinent issues. When I worked for AlJazeera (was web editor), I was approached by African journalists who had worked in Africa as TV presenters, and they wanted to know if they could work as presenters for AJE English. I would help them send their resumes to newsroom managers, but I was only trying to be polite because I knew perfectly well that the English they spoke, though very good by the standards of their countries, was never going to be accepted by hiring managers. I was the only web editor from Africa, and in my time at Al Jazeera, I saw only one woman from my country hired as a producer. She grew up in the UK and studied there―and speaks English with a British accent.
Hi Musaazi, great to find you here. Your anecdote about the African journalists makes me quite sad - such a waste of talent, and AJE is meant to be all about reflecting the global south. Aje is probably better than most channels but still, it's such a shame. I think international networks should offer specific voice training. Not to try to make people sound like something they're not (uk or US accents) but to help them improve their language skills and make their own accents clear to understand (ironically even more important for an international channel, where many viewers are themselves second language English). But I think things are slowly changing. Any talk of global diversity in news is hollow until this issue is at least addressed. Thank you for your comment
Yes, Barbara, things are beginning to change, as you noted. Twenty-five years ago, the BBC didn't have a single African-born/African-educated news presenter anchoring international news. Today I see faces from South Africa, Uganda (my country), etc. But some flagship news and current affairs programmes, such as NewsHour on the World Service, have stuck with native speakers. I raised this issue many years ago, as you can see here: https://bbc.in/41kHLcH
Barbara, thank you for making me think, once again, as you so often do.
I think you distinguished two separate questions here, about what it is to be a native speaker of English, then deliberately conflated them again. And you yourself are the best example I can think of, of why this question means less than it seems to mean.
Your proficiency in English exceeds that of 99% of people who call themselves native speakers, but as you've admitted in this article, you can't pass for someone who grew up in the British Isles, in North America, in Australasia, or in the Anglophone parts of Africa. Or to put it another way, you are obviously not from a place of native English speakers.
And yet, if I didn't recognise the distinctive Italian undertones that contribute to making your voice so beautiful - the handful of letters that betray your heritage - I would absolutely believe that you are a native speaker, just one with a different accent from other native speakers. It's not that you're fooling the non-native speakers who think you are native. It's simply that there isn't such a thing as "correct English speech". Your English is just as valid as mine, just as valid as that of King Charles himself, and just as valid as that of the finest Hollywood actor. You're simply versatile enough to be just as convincing in a slew of other languages.
And that leads me to disagree with your conclusion. I don't think trust needs to be tribal. You are not of my tribe, but I always trusted you and believed you when I heard you on Al Jazeera. Just as I trust and believe other news presenters on that channel, who are also not of my tribe. I would like to think we live in a world where people will focus on the message, on the content of a news article; more than on the speech patterns of the person delivering it. Perhaps I'm being naïve or idealistic. There's certainly a level at which a foreigner becomes difficult to understand; but frankly, there are people who grew up in England, Ireland and South Africa whom I find difficult to understand. Likewise, I'm sure there are people in North America who would struggle to understand my accent. Give me an articulate, intelligent second-language English speaker over an inarticulate mumbler, any day of the week.
David, thank you for your insightful comment. I would also like to agree with you that trust doesn't have to be tribal. But I think what people are looking for when they tune into to a channel like Al Jazeera is different to what they would expect from their local news. And I would guess that maybe Al Jazeera had to win your trust at the beginning. Also, maybe the kind of people who specifically look for a news channel that speaks about other parts of the world and challenges the mainstream narrative could be seen as a 'tribe' of sorts. I don't know, but I'm happy that we're talking about it. My issue was that language/accents never gets mentioned while it has a huge impact.
Your name tag says NZ, which I'm assuming means you're in New Zealand (and I'm going to go further and assume you're from there too?). if I'm mistaken, please forgive me.
I wonder if your comment identifies something else important. There's a difference between the UK and other English-as-first-language nations? I recognise that trust being tribal comment in British society for sure. It's an ugly truth that few own up to, but it is there. And it's not just about language, but class too. The UK is still riven with class division. The unvoiced question, "does she talk like us", is about more than nation, it's about class too.
I wonder if NZ has a different experience of class division?
Hi Jonathan. Yes, I have lived my entire life in New Zealand. I'm not sure whether you're making a statement that there's a difference between UK and other English speaking nations, or asking me whether it's something I believe myself. I think my comment to Barbara says no. I mentioned the way Barbara speaks, the way I speak, the way His Majesty speaks, and the way a Hollywood actor speaks; and claimed that they're all equally valid. My point is that there is no single "best" English.
I understand that the British class system leaves people with the notion that it's important to adopt a particular speech pattern. That if you study at Oxford or Cambridge, you're going to end up speaking "Received Pronunciation", whether you intend to or not. I think a similar thing happens in the United States, but kind of inverted; that is, there are "less desirable" modes of speech, but not a "most desirable" one. For example, you can have a particular slow drawl if you're from the deep South, or you a distinctive nasal twang if you're from the wrong part of New York; but there's no particular "high quality" version of a United States accent.
In both Australia and New Zealand, I don't think this happens at all. The variation in our accents is much smaller. I struggle to distinguish a North Island New Zealand accent from a South Island one, although an accent from the very far south of New Zealand is a bit more distinctive. So if there's a class system here, accent doesn't play into it.
Of course, like in any country, not everybody in New Zealand is born with the same opportunities and advantages. Social background, money, race, educational opportunity and so on are all factors that affect what kind of future someone is likely to have. So that's a class system of sorts, although we don't tend to admit it quite as freely as someone from the UK might. What doesn't play into it, as far as I can tell, is a person's accent. We don't judge people as soon as they open their mouths; and the concept of a "best" variety of New Zealand English simply doesn't exist.
I hope that answers your question.
Thanks so much Barbara for writing this - every foreign journo in the UK realises where their main challenge lies from day one, though it remains completely unacknowledged by colleagues, fellow students and potential employers. I lost years trying to catch up with the language having received zero support - imagine the difference a targeted training scheme would have made to me and so many others. Even more sinister is the hidden 'accent' discrimination. In my first year in the UK I made a point of trying to copy the local accent at least as much as of learning the language itself, and it paid off because I ended up sounding 'less different' compared to my peers. People complimented me for my English - which wasn't good, just sounded a little more British. I was able to find a job, others from my same cohort never did, and there's no doubt whatsoever that their accent massively penalised them.
Hi Lou. I remembered your comment about a targeted training scheme, so I made one! If you check out www.barbaraserra.info/voices you can see what i offer. Enrolment open until Monday evening U.K. time. 10% off today for all substack subscribers , add TENOFF at checkout. Hope you might find it interesting! All the best, B
Hi Barbara, great initiative! I am an editor myself, but I will definitely pass it on :)
Thought of this article just now when I was having a conversation about English v French and Spanish in my bilingual Canadian office in DC.
The French will not easily give up the 'global-language' fight and more power to them!
Thanks for your insight and reflection on this topic, Barbara - which may obviously translate to any country in the world. From my experience, a fellow Italian who has worked as a medical consultant in the NHS for over 10 years, this does not just apply to journalism though.
Well,I haven't actually thought of this,I never thought of you as a foreigner, could joke about it but not really, that's because we are on the same Planet Earth.But can see how it affects journalism and other difficulties in the world,namely prejudice of different appearances and beliefs.I don't speak fluent Moari,but not a handicap.Can explain why but not now,later.Thanksfor the post.Enjoyed it as always.💋🌹🌹🌹
Thank you Patricia
Sad you had to delete my reply
I didn’t
Your voice is nice Barbara! You speak English like an Italian! But it's good! Grazie!
You knowing Dutch?
Your voice is nice Barbara! You speak English like an Italian! But it's good! Grazie!
I recall reading years ago that if you don't learn a second language before the age of 6, you will always have an accent. My spouse, who has spoken English as a second language since a child and tells me she "mostly thinks in English", would seem to validate that rule. So I was astonished the other day when chatting with our 30'ish Fedex driver I've talked to for years and I had always assumed he was born in Canada. He mentioned, that like my spouse, he grew up in SE Asia and moved to Canada in his late teens. I then related what I said in the first sentence to him. He just smiled at me and said, "see what working in a call center can do for you"! This individual seems to have invalidated a belief I previously held to be axiomatic.
I learned English age 27 and I totally think and dream in English :) Our brains are flexible!
I think that the fact that, as reported by The Guardian of all papers, a few years' back, AJ's owners were partners with Hamas in a Doha-based Real Estate company that washed Hamas' tax revenues, might be more of a factor, along with its historic support for the Muslim Brotherhood.
I would also blame Wadah Khanfar, obviously, as do many of AJ's journalists, who resigned because of him.
Funny how nobody at AJ ever blames Iran for owning Hamas: must be because of the gas pipeline it owns jointly with Qatar!
Israel captured all of Palestine - but from Egypt and Jordan - in 1967 - and retains just 10%. It voted in the current hoodlum government, purely because of the massive increase in Arab terrorism, so that backfired for the Palestinians.
Funny how nobody at AJ ever says, well that was a big mistake by Palestinians to reject the UN Partition plan, as that would have given them more land than any deal since or in the future, and Palestine would now be celebrating 75 years of prosperity, with a decent government and no corrupt Hamas or PLO terrorists running the show!
Actions have consequences, and the losers of the wars they started don't get to decide the terms of any peace deal.
I'm really really disappointed that you didn't sing, Barbara! You might think I'm joking. But I bet you sing beautifully.
I don't think it takes that much to be a TV presenter. You talked about the skill of writing about images, but that conceivably could easily done by someone else.
For me this is the main reason why I find it difficult to care that much whether foreign accent diversity is respected or not in this field: to become an "instant celeb" by being a presenter of any kind on UK TV, with a commensurate pay package, should be regarded as an unexpected privilege, like winning the lottery. This is a branch of showbiz. And yet, dare I say it, with the hypocrisy of claiming to be more serious than showbiz! In all other areas of journalism having a slight foreign accent would hardly matter.
Can you accept that your beauty will have been a factor in the decisions of others? Other presenters get chosen for various other reasons, which we all ponder as we watch them. I.e. why did the managers choose that particular person? Often diversity does clearly seem to come into it. But it's never terribly serious. To have an ambition at any age to be "a TV presenter" is a rather sad ambition: it means you are seeking to become, and then trade off being, a "familiar face" beloved of the non-binary-person-in-the-street up and down the land. But such love is always unearned and therefore unmerited.
But this article also makes me wonder, again, something I've often wondered as I've watched you presenting on Al-Jazeera: are we permitted to ask/know *why* precisely you chose to study journalism and make a journalistic career in the UK? What made you leave Italy?
I have some familiarity with Italy. It seems that meritocratic advancement is generally held to be a biggish issue there, favouritism, nepotism, cronyism, « figli e figliastri » ... Or more of an issue than in the UK, although many "native" English like myself would reject completely the notion that the UK has anything to be particularly proud of in this regard. Maybe it was nothing to do with this...
I had a friend who was from Northern Ireland.
She did one presenting shift on Sky News back in the 1990s, and that was the end of it.
On a side issue, why is Al Jazeera completely anti-Israeli? Is it because its owners want to access the natural gas offshore of Israel, or are they just totally antisemitic? Or both!
Ah, I guess maybe in the 90s accents from the different nations might have been an issue. I don't think it would be now. Certainly a soft Scottish accent is usually very popular (I think it sounds beautiful). The AJ question isn't for me to answer but I'd say that Al Jazeera wants to shine a light on the continued occupation of Palestinian lands by Israel.